LIES INTERVIEW by Jackie Greenberg aka DJ Emo Cousin

KXSC’s Music Director, Jackie Greenberg aka DJ Emo Cousin hopped on a call with Mike and Nate Kinsella (American Football) to discuss their new creative endeavor, LIES. They discussed musical inspirations, album artwork, and the transition from American Football to LIES.

Jackie: Tell me about LIES and why you guys have decided to start it.

Mike: It kind of came about organically maybe. When we were writing the songs, most of them were going to be American Football songs. And then pandemic and remote writing process and everybody’s lives being turned upside down kind of got in the way. So, American Football kind of got put on hold and me and Nate sort of liked the direction the songs were going in anyways and decided to lean into them a little more. We were like “Oh, we don’t have to make them American Football, we can kind of make them whatever we want.” We’re not like tethered to mutilated guitars or whatever people associate with American Football. It was sort of liberating in many ways.

Jackie: Are you trying to accomplish an entirely new sound or are you trying to pay some sort of homage to American Football or any of your other projects or monikers?

Mike: Yeah. The American Football part is sort of what just comes out. And then all the things that we’re sort of taking in a different direction take a little more effort, at least for me anyways. I sort of hear American Football melodies anyways but Nate sort of takes them in different directions, which is fun.

Nate: Most of the songs sort of had a band name as a working title. Like “Oh, this one sounds like Depeche Mode, Peter Gabriel.” So, they began with that natural “Oh, this sounds like that” and we leaned into it a little more. We leaned into that more rather than straying away from it and I feel like with American Football, we leaned away. With this project we’re leaning in to where it wants to go.

Jackie: What was the inspiration behind your recent single, “Camera Chimera”? 

Mike: I think that one, lyrically, sort of followed the music. As the music sort of came into place, I was trying to invoke a Dave Gahan Depeche Mode obscure dark poetic kind of stuff. That was sort of the impetus for the lyrics. I had the melody and the lines before I knew what the heck the song was even about.

Jackie: What’s the story behind the album covers being animals?

Nate: That was my idea. Album artwork is really hard, but we were going to do a series. Like a series of a bunch of different images. I was thinking if it should be photos of people or portraits, and then we had this sort of motif going on where there’s the black and white mixed with color. Where there’s this sort of clash happening between these two things. So, I was thinking about black and white portraits and throwing some color into them, and I started looking at animal portraits which can be really fun with puppies and cats and stuff. I just found a few of them where I was like “Wow, I feel like I know that animal.” They’re like looking in the camera and there’s like something behind their eyes. Like they’re an animal and there’s not a whole lot but there’s a feeling. But I found enough of them, like an animal looking into the camera, that you can sort of map onto that. I feel like people do that with animals, they map all sorts of stuff onto them. Like this puppy looks cute, it must be a really nice dog. I just sort of started using those portraits and it worked. And to throw some color on top of it to give it a little bit of animated life and to look more organic. I sort of just went down a road. 

Jackie: Which of your releases have been your favorite to write and release?

Mike: I like LP3 maybe. 

Nate: Oh, like everything?

Jackie: I was sort of referring to LIES but if we want to talk about everything, I’m okay with that too!

Mike: Alright, LIES. I like “Corbeau.” That’s the song I’ve been wanting to be a part of since I was 14 years old. Just shoegaze-y and lush and a mix of acoustic and electronic. I love the way that one came together.

Nate: LP3 – I think that one turned out really cool. I like “Echoes.” That one may have been the one with the Tears for Fears [style]. I really like how that one turned around.  I remember when that was going to be an American Football song and it was a one-minute-long thing and you threw vocals on it, and the chorus of it and I was like “Oh my god, this is great!” 

Jackie: Mike, do you want to talk about why LP3 is your favorite?

Mike: I think what we were saying earlier, how we were sort of leaning away from American Football. I think it’s sort of like maybe LP2, we were trying to write an American Football album and, in the process, we sort of learned how to write together as adults. And then LP3 might be the culmination of learning how to do it and combining which elements of American Football are important to the band and sound, and then also instead of doing that, figuring out how we can do that in a more clever or creative way. I think it’s more subtly clever while also being melodic instead. We put a f**k ton of effort into that. That was an album – and I’ve put out a million albums in different bands – that all the pre-production of recording was taken seriously, and all the songs and arrangements were combed over meticulously before we got in the studio. 

Jackie: Do you expect to have a similar fan base to that of American Football or are you hoping for a completely new fan base?

Mike: I wouldn’t say expects the word. My voice can only hit two notes and it can barely hit those notes, so it sounds like my voice no matter what. So, I think if you like American Football, you’ll probably be into this. But I also think it’s a bit outside of the lines so maybe if you’re into other stuff, you could also be into this.

Nate: I have no idea on that one. I think it’s helpful that we have the other American Football albums and people will be more willing to check it out, but I don’t know if they’ll like it or not. I feel optimistic. I like it so I don’t really care.

Jackie: I saw you guys played a few shows over the weekend, how was that?

Mike: It was exciting because it was kind of new and stressful. It’s fun to have butterflies and stuff. I think it was good, I think the second night was a lot better which was expected.

Nate: We’re still tweaking. I mean, not that we’re on drugs. I mean we didn’t do drugs all weekend and we’re still high. We’re still manipulating the set and dialing it in. 

Jackie: Do you have a favorite or least favorite moment from that show?

Mike: There were many parts that I just didn’t play. So those would be my least favorite moments.  They sort of went by and in my head, I was like “Oh yeah, I should have been doing that there.” My favorite moments are when my eyes are closed and I’m like “Oh this f**king sounds great,” and I’m not focused on what has to be done, I’m just in it. Those will come more frequent as we play more.

Nate: I think I accidentally hit myself in the face a couple times. Those weren’t that high.

Jackie: Are you hoping that people won’t always affiliate Lies, with American Football? Like do you want people to see it as a completely different entity or do you not mind that there is an association with American Football?

Nate: I don’t really mind. If it’s like “Oh, it’s a side project from the people of American Football,” that really wouldn’t bother me. I’m totally cool with whatever people are going to think. You can’t really control it. 

Mike: I guess I don’t mind. I would like to play different kinds of shows and opening for different types of bands, rather than playing for the bands from the scene we’ve been living in for a while. It’d be fun to meet new people, wouldn’t it?

Nate: Over the weekend, we met some new people, and it was really fun and it’s continuing.

Mike: It turns out that everyone’s so nice, when you don’t just rely on the internet to interact. Everyone was so nice to us, and we all got along, it was great. 

Jackie: Who has been the most supportive of your new project?

Mike: The only reason this is able to even exist in the world is because of our manager, Amber Leone and obviously Polyvinyl has been wildly supportive and generally allows us to do whatever we want. The combination of those two seem to make everything happen for us.

Nate: We have a good buddy in Chicago that lets me sleep at his place, just all the time, whenever. Matt Kellen. He might be one of my most supportive friends. It’s good to have those kinds of people. Just a few close friends. I feel like it wouldn’t have even happened if we didn’t have somebody that was like “Yeah, you should do that.” It helps to have somebody that’s like “Make it a thing.”

Mike: There’s maybe four people in the last two years that’ll randomly be like “I really like what you guys are doing.” It gives wind under my wings for the next six months. It’s sort of a slow-motion project, we’re not playing a lot of shows yet and we’ve been sitting on these songs for a long time, so it’s cool to have somebody be like “I like what you do.” Those people are valuable. 

Jackie: What have you learned from previous endeavors and how are you applying your new knowledge to this project?

Mike: I think we learned a lot. In terms of working at our own pace. I know I’ve been burned with a bunch of different projects. Where even if it seems like we get a little bit of time, but then all of a sudden, you feel rushed to finish and record the songs, and have them come out. Every part of you just feel rushed. I think this one generally was sort of at our own pace, or at least, we gave ourselves ample time to stress and deal with it on our own. That was nice.

Nate: Yeah, that was good. I think it was fun to work on it as mostly a duo through the whole thing. I haven’t done an album like that in a long time. We’ve both done albums on our own, which is still very different because you’re shouldering the whole thing. But even with one other person, it helps to stay motivated because you feel more accountable. And you’re managing way more opinions about how things should go and how to do it, which isn’t always hard. Like it’s nice to have a mix of personalities and opinions. But it can be hard to manage that too, so it’s been fun to have it be two people making decisions. 

Jackie: I have some more sillier questions now.

Nate: Severe?

Jackie: No, no sillier. I don’t do severe. How did you come up with the band name?

Mike: Uhhh, Nate came up with it.

Nate: Is that true? I had a list of really dumb names and apparently maybe one good one. I threw it out there and it stuck. It was kind of fitting for the time.

Mike: The theme was already in a few songs anyways, so it was already sort of in the lyrics in some capacity, either in content or the actual words. We were sort of like “That’s cool, it sort of keeps coming up.”

Jackie: Do you have a favorite album or artist of all time?

Nate: I put on this Talk Talk album, Laughing Stock, I listen to it a ton. I listened to it a lot in my early 20s and it really grew on me and now it’s just woven into how I think about music now. If anyone is interested, you could start there and work your way backwards. Their trajectory is that they started as a synth-pop band in the 80s and over the course of a decade, they just got stranger and jazz and more experimental. That final album they did is incredible and has so many cool ideas. It’s something you can listen to and find something new each time.  

Jackie: This is one of my favorite questions when I’m talking to artists because I love knowing their favorites. I didn’t know what to play on my show, so I DM’d one of my favorite artists and they weirdly responded, and I was like “What should I play?” and they told me to play Bad Bunny and that that was all that they listened to which really confused me because they’re a pop-punk band, so I was taken aback by it. But that’s why I love asking the question, so if you want to answer it Mike, all yours.

Mike: I can sort of explain that, like I have a hard time listening to singer-songwriters because it’s too close to what I think I do. Like I hear it and I critique what I’m working on or what I’ve done, so I kind of avoid that in general. I think I always go back to The Cure or Depeche Mode, just by liking to it when I was 12 and it got me through high school and college. Those are two of those formative bands. The Cure is just so unique, like no other band sounds like that. There’s this weird playful side and they’re also like gothy and its sort of like hanging out with a complex human, all at once. 

You can listen to their newest single, “Camera Chimera” here: https://open.spotify.com/album/0Q0hQYT0burwRF4jNfkjtE?si=GWDxINYDRgK9vtW2rq1Cbw